Comments on: IE fixed, Opera is next http://symfony.sopca.com/2007/10/03/ie-fixed-opera-is-next/ Symfony, PHP and web development directly from the horse's mouth Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:44:13 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=wordpress-mu-1.0 by: baran http://symfony.sopca.com/2007/10/03/ie-fixed-opera-is-next/#comment-2706 Mon, 11 Aug 2008 18:20:28 +0000 http://symfony.sopca.com/2007/10/03/ie-fixed-opera-is-next/#comment-2706 <p>very nice info thank you</p> very nice info thank you

]]> by: firefox http://symfony.sopca.com/2007/10/03/ie-fixed-opera-is-next/#comment-2381 Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:44:03 +0000 http://symfony.sopca.com/2007/10/03/ie-fixed-opera-is-next/#comment-2381 <p>Thanks for the post</p> Thanks for the post

]]> by: Krof Drakula http://symfony.sopca.com/2007/10/03/ie-fixed-opera-is-next/#comment-820 Thu, 21 Feb 2008 08:13:32 +0000 http://symfony.sopca.com/2007/10/03/ie-fixed-opera-is-next/#comment-820 <p>Well jQuery 1.2.3 now includes the new ready() method that sniffs for Opera and firest the DOMReady method only after the CSS styles are applied, so this is a non-issue as of that version.</p> <p>On the one hand - you can't blame them for interpreting the "rules" differently than the other browser. Technically, the DOM <strong>is</strong> ready after loading the bare-bones HTML and parsing it, the convenience other implementations offer is that they assume you're trying to do whatever you want to do after the CSS has been applied, Opera just shifts that responsibility to the developer.</p> <p>While that may seem counter-intuitive, it actually gives the developer more freedom to choose whether or not to act before or after CSS has been applied instead of firing it after the document has been styled (like Firefox). True, it adds to the code when trying to emulate Firefox's behaviour, but with high-traffic sites with slow loading times - adding behaviour (not dynamic JS styling) to elements before applying CSS could actually be an advantage.</p> <p>I just wish there was some sort of scheduling mechanism for JS-set CSS properties to be applied, kind of like the "defer" attribute, where the element's CSS would be modified but applied only after other CSS files have had a crack at it.</p> Well jQuery 1.2.3 now includes the new ready() method that sniffs for Opera and firest the DOMReady method only after the CSS styles are applied, so this is a non-issue as of that version.

On the one hand - you can’t blame them for interpreting the “rules” differently than the other browser. Technically, the DOM is ready after loading the bare-bones HTML and parsing it, the convenience other implementations offer is that they assume you’re trying to do whatever you want to do after the CSS has been applied, Opera just shifts that responsibility to the developer.

While that may seem counter-intuitive, it actually gives the developer more freedom to choose whether or not to act before or after CSS has been applied instead of firing it after the document has been styled (like Firefox). True, it adds to the code when trying to emulate Firefox’s behaviour, but with high-traffic sites with slow loading times - adding behaviour (not dynamic JS styling) to elements before applying CSS could actually be an advantage.

I just wish there was some sort of scheduling mechanism for JS-set CSS properties to be applied, kind of like the “defer” attribute, where the element’s CSS would be modified but applied only after other CSS files have had a crack at it.

]]> by: Brandon http://symfony.sopca.com/2007/10/03/ie-fixed-opera-is-next/#comment-819 Thu, 21 Feb 2008 05:15:19 +0000 http://symfony.sopca.com/2007/10/03/ie-fixed-opera-is-next/#comment-819 <p>I'm currently in the process of developing an PHP/MySQL application and have run into this issue with Opera. In an effort to not get too messy with my JavaScript and risk alienating support for my application in even more browsers, I have elected to declare the CSS styles inline. All this really means to me at the end of the day is that my application will feature some unnecessary bulk, and will be significantly less simple to customize for those downloading and using it.</p> <p>All I'll say is that it's disappointing and that Opera has definitely earned some demerit points from me, and it's definitely shifted a bit more into the non-developer friendly column. What a shame.</p> I’m currently in the process of developing an PHP/MySQL application and have run into this issue with Opera. In an effort to not get too messy with my JavaScript and risk alienating support for my application in even more browsers, I have elected to declare the CSS styles inline. All this really means to me at the end of the day is that my application will feature some unnecessary bulk, and will be significantly less simple to customize for those downloading and using it.

All I’ll say is that it’s disappointing and that Opera has definitely earned some demerit points from me, and it’s definitely shifted a bit more into the non-developer friendly column. What a shame.

]]> by: Krof Drakula http://symfony.sopca.com/2007/10/03/ie-fixed-opera-is-next/#comment-337 Sat, 06 Oct 2007 18:38:28 +0000 http://symfony.sopca.com/2007/10/03/ie-fixed-opera-is-next/#comment-337 <p>Could be, must be all of the time spent on debugging for browsers that gives me an edgy feel. :)</p> <p>And yes, I am VERY open to discussion on handling and/or fixing this issue (though, I admit, is only one implementation of the grey area in the specification), so I am taking you up on that opera.</p> <p>See you on dev.opera.com!</p> Could be, must be all of the time spent on debugging for browsers that gives me an edgy feel. :)

And yes, I am VERY open to discussion on handling and/or fixing this issue (though, I admit, is only one implementation of the grey area in the specification), so I am taking you up on that opera.

See you on dev.opera.com!

]]> by: Chris Mills http://symfony.sopca.com/2007/10/03/ie-fixed-opera-is-next/#comment-333 Fri, 05 Oct 2007 14:45:03 +0000 http://symfony.sopca.com/2007/10/03/ie-fixed-opera-is-next/#comment-333 <p>Hi there, Chris Mills from Opera here.</p> <p>Thanks for the post - I think you are being a litte harsh here, but then again, I'm biased ;-)</p> <p>This issue has had quite a lot of coverage - http://my.opera.com/nicomen/blog/2007/07/08/domcontentloaded-gotcha-with-external-stylesheets is a pretty useful post on the subject. We are thinking about what to do in this situation. While a lot of people think it would make sense to change how we do it, some prefer our current behavior. It may seem slightly annoying to some, but it's not insurmountable.</p> <p>If you'd like to discuss the subject more, or talk to me about anything else, then feel free to drop me a mail - we always like to hear feedback from people about our browsers, positive or negative, as it all helps us to produce a better browsing experience for our users.</p> <p>best regards,</p> <p>Chris Mills Opera Software ASA</p> Hi there, Chris Mills from Opera here.

Thanks for the post - I think you are being a litte harsh here, but then again, I’m biased ;-)

This issue has had quite a lot of coverage - http://my.opera.com/nicomen/blog/2007/07/08/domcontentloaded-gotcha-with-external-stylesheets is a pretty useful post on the subject. We are thinking about what to do in this situation. While a lot of people think it would make sense to change how we do it, some prefer our current behavior. It may seem slightly annoying to some, but it’s not insurmountable.

If you’d like to discuss the subject more, or talk to me about anything else, then feel free to drop me a mail - we always like to hear feedback from people about our browsers, positive or negative, as it all helps us to produce a better browsing experience for our users.

best regards,

Chris Mills
Opera Software ASA

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